GSA MAS LCATs and University Subks

[CuriousContractor_22]

Hi all - I have heard from peers that universities present issues on task orders issues under GSA MAS where prime contractors must map their subcontractors to their negotiated labor categories/rates. How I understand it is universities are not required to track time like other government contractors are, so they do not track their time in a system to invoice a prime on Time and Materials task orders.

If this is true, is anyone aware of a compliant solution for GSA MAS contractors that want to use a university as a subcontractor? I am confused by this since several universities appear to have GSA MAS contracts on GSA eLibrary, so clearly there is a solution out there. 

Thanks in advance!

[C Culham]

11 hours ago, CuriousContractor_22 said:

If this is true, is anyone aware of a compliant solution for GSA MAS contractors that want to use a university as a subcontractor?

Have your "peers" provided reference that substantiates what they are telling you?

In light of the wording of FAR 16.601 and the provisions pursuant to FAR 16.601 that are placed in a Time and Material solicitation that address how "hourly rate" is defined for both the prime a subcontractor I suspect what you heard is not correct.  Based on the wording I would think that any prime would demand that the subcontractor, no matter who they are, provide a hourly rate that the sub can prove.

[CuriousContractor_22]

54 minutes ago, C Culham said:

Have your "peers" provided reference that substantiates what they are telling you?

In light of the wording of FAR 16.601 and the provisions pursuant to FAR 16.601 that are placed in a Time and Material solicitation that address how "hourly rate" is defined for both the prime a subcontractor I suspect what you heard is not correct.  Based on the wording I would think that any prime would demand that the subcontractor, no matter who they are, provide a hourly rate that the sub can prove.

Aside from their own anecdotal evidence, here is what they have told me: per cost principal guidance from OMB and the FAR, universities are not required to track time daily using time cards. Thankfully, I found the OMB and FAR cost principal references in another Wificon thread for reference, which are OMB A-21 and well as FAR 31.3. So the issue is that many universities do not understand nor do not want to (again, anecdotal) enter into a Time and Materials agreement because they do not track their time daily with time cards. Some universities that agree to letting them develop an hourly rate for mapping purposes then end up being painful upon award since they do not track their time daily.  

Still, I find this strange since some universities have GSA MAS contracts with hourly rates. Wouldn't it be simple enough to require a university subcontractor to track their time daily for that project only? 

[Retreadfed]

Curious, OMB Cir. A-21 no longer exists.  It was replaced several years ago by the Uniform Guidance in 2 CFR 200.  Note that 2 CFR is not a regulation but a framework for agencies to use in establishing their rules for grants and cooperative agreements.  However, because the FAR has adopted the cost principles in 2 CFR 200, those cost principles are mandatory for FAR contracts with IHEs.

[CuriousContractor_22]

53 minutes ago, Retreadfed said:

Curious, OMB Cir. A-21 no longer exists.  It was replaced several years ago by the Uniform Guidance in 2 CFR 200.  Note that 2 CFR is not a regulation but a framework for agencies to use in establishing their rules for grants and cooperative agreements.  However, because the FAR has adopted the cost principles in 2 CFR 200, those cost principles are mandatory for FAR contracts with IHEs.

Thanks for the info on OMB Cir. A-21; I did not realize that it was replaced. The context on the adoption of the cost principles in 2 CFR 200 is very helpful. Thank you!

[General.Zhukov]

15 hours ago, CuriousContractor_22 said:

How I understand it is universities are not required to track time like other government contractors are, so they do not track their time in a system to invoice a prime on Time and Materials task orders.

Many institutes of higher education have MAS contracts with Labor Hour pricing (UNC Chapel Hill for sure).     My agency has LH and T&M MAS orders with these universities.  We also have cost no-fee contracts with universities (like Texas A&M).  We have contracts with non-profit primes that sub to universities.  I don't know the details of those, but they aren't fixed price. 

My agency, however, (mostly, maybe only) works with public state universities, things may be different for private IHEs.

There isn't any type of blanket prohibition. 

[CuriousContractor_22]

37 minutes ago, General.Zhukov said:

Many institutes of higher education have MAS contracts with Labor Hour pricing (UNC Chapel Hill for sure).     My agency has LH and T&M MAS orders with these universities.  We also have cost no-fee contracts with universities (like Texas A&M).  We have contracts with non-profit primes that sub to universities.  I don't know the details of those, but they aren't fixed price. 

My agency, however, (mostly, maybe only) works with public state universities, things may be different for private IHEs.

There isn't any type of blanket prohibition. 

Thank you for the input, @General.Zhukov! When working with IHEs with LH and T&M MAS contract orders , have you run into any issues remaining compliant with time keeping due to the issues I alluded to above? Or have they found a way to remain compliant despite not being required to record time daily in a time keeping system?

[C Culham]

21 minutes ago, CuriousContractor_22 said:

Thank you for the input, @General.Zhukov! When working with IHEs with LH and T&M MAS contract orders , have you run into any issues remaining compliant with time keeping due to the issues I alluded to above? Or have they found a way to remain compliant despite not being required to record time daily in a time keeping system?

It would seem that the associated payment clauses in the T&M cover your question.

For commercial service see 52.212-4 (ALT 1) which states this at (i)(i)(D) - "When requested by the Contracting Officer or the authorized representative, the Contractor shall substantiate invoices (including any subcontractor hours reimbursed at the hourly rate in the schedule) by evidence of actual payment, individual daily job timecards, records that verify the employees meet the qualifications for the labor categories specified in the contract, or other substantiation specified in the contract." (emphasis on the "or")

For non-commerical service 52.232-7 at (a)(5) - 

"Vouchers may be submitted not more than once every two weeks, to the Contracting Officer or authorized representative. A small business concern may receive more frequent payments than every two weeks. The Contractor shall substantiate vouchers (including any subcontractor hours reimbursed at the hourly rate in the schedule) by evidence of actual payment and by-

(i) Individual daily job timekeeping records;

(ii) Records that verify the employees meet the qualifications for the labor categories specified in the contract; or

(iii) Other substantiation approved by the Contracting Officer."

(emphasis again on the "or")

Conclusion - Timekeeping records are not necessarily required.

[CuriousContractor_22]

3 hours ago, C Culham said:

It would seem that the associated payment clauses in the T&M cover your question.

For commercial service see 52.212-4 (ALT 1) which states this at (i)(i)(D) - "When requested by the Contracting Officer or the authorized representative, the Contractor shall substantiate invoices (including any subcontractor hours reimbursed at the hourly rate in the schedule) by evidence of actual payment, individual daily job timecards, records that verify the employees meet the qualifications for the labor categories specified in the contract, or other substantiation specified in the contract." (emphasis on the "or")

For non-commerical service 52.232-7 at (a)(5) - 

"Vouchers may be submitted not more than once every two weeks, to the Contracting Officer or authorized representative. A small business concern may receive more frequent payments than every two weeks. The Contractor shall substantiate vouchers (including any subcontractor hours reimbursed at the hourly rate in the schedule) by evidence of actual payment and by-

(i) Individual daily job timekeeping records;

(ii) Records that verify the employees meet the qualifications for the labor categories specified in the contract; or

(iii) Other substantiation approved by the Contracting Officer."

(emphasis again on the "or")

Conclusion - Timekeeping records are not necessarily required.

Your conclusion seems spot on, @C Culham. That "or" seems critical. How could a prime invoice the time a university spent if the university does not document their hours per person? Would the Contractive Officer or authorized representative be able to allow a prime to guesstimate? Is it safer to require the university to track their time per person in a spreadsheet? 

[C Culham]

48 minutes ago, CuriousContractor_22 said:

Your conclusion seems spot on, @C Culham. That "or" seems critical. How could a prime invoice the time a university spent if the university does not document their hours per person? Would the Contractive Officer or authorized representative be able to allow a prime to guesstimate? Is it safer to require the university to track their time per person in a spreadsheet? 

As noted by the FAR and the clauses previously referenced it would seem such nuances would be made for the particular contract(s).

[General.Zhukov]

19 hours ago, CuriousContractor_22 said:

! When working with IHEs with LH and T&M MAS contract orders , have you run into any issues remaining compliant with time keeping due to the issues I alluded to above?

No, I don't think there are any problems with universities complying with timekeeping.   None that are big enough for me to be aware of.

Large research universities (the type my agency works with) will have some sort of office that takes care of contracting.  These are the people to talk to.  Like this one I know about at Johns Hopkins.  Not the PhDs.  The investigators who do the work of the contract - they neither know nor care about the FAR or timekeeping compliance.   

 

[CuriousContractor_22]

2 hours ago, General.Zhukov said:

No, I don't think there are any problems with universities complying with timekeeping.   None that are big enough for me to be aware of.

Large research universities (the type my agency works with) will have some sort of office that takes care of contracting.  These are the people to talk to.  Like this one I know about at Johns Hopkins.  Not the PhDs.  The investigators who do the work of the contract - they neither know nor care about the FAR or timekeeping compliance.   

 

That makes sense, @General.Zhukov. It sounds like universities can comply with timekeeping for T&M/LH work and primes can be compliant but may require discussions with offices like the one you mentioned at Johns Hopkins. Even if they do not track time like a GDIT there are ways to work with them to track time on specific projects. Is that understanding right?

[General.Zhukov]

Last word on this.  Yes.   Universities (big ones) have business offices whose job it is to work with you to get the signature, including accepting and complying with T&M or Labor Hour pricing, or FAR 31, or whatever.  There is no blanket prohibition I am aware of that would make universities categorically unable to comply with these regs.  I know for sure that my federal agency routinely enters into contracts with universities (to do agro/bio research and regulation related stuff).

[CuriousContractor_22]

Thanks for the insights and indulging my curiosity @General.Zhukov. I appreciate you and everyone's help walking me through this.