Jump to content

Do nonconstruction civilian requirements over $250k need IGCE, and which part of the FAR?


Recommended Posts

Does a civilian, nonconstruction orders over the $250k SAT require Independent Govt Cost Estimates?

I was always taught that IGCEs are required for everything over $250k. However, I am getting angry pushback from program people who don't want to be bothered to do IGCEs and they just attach contractor quotes.

I am trying to cite the FAR, but I only see sections in the army regulations (AFAR) Subpart 5107.90 and the regular FAR 36.203 Government estimate of construction costs (which is about construction).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • NewbieFed changed the title to Do nonconstruction civilian requirements over $250k need IGCE, and which part of the FAR?

"I was always taught..."

Perhaps you were wrongly taught? 

If you are making an assertion that an IGCE is required, you should be able to find a citation supporting your assertion.  If there is no citation, well, then there is no requirement.

I think you were wrongly taught, if you are talking about the FAR level.  Of course, I cannot speak to all the agency supplements (or to your agency supplement, since you haven't identified your agency).

Besides, why do you want an IGCE?  What useful purpose will it serve?  If you need some estimate for approval thresholds and clause selection, it seems to me that contractor quotes are sufficient for that purpose.

I encourage you to read the FAR for yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, ji20874 said:

"I was always taught..."

Perhaps you were wrongly taught? 

If you are making an assertion that an IGCE is required, you should be able to find a citation supporting your assertion.  If there is no citation, well, then there is no requirement.

I think you were wrongly taught, if you are talking about the FAR level.  Of course, I cannot speak to all the agency supplements (or to your agency supplement, since you haven't identified your agency).

Besides, why do you want an IGCE?  What useful purpose will it serve?  If you need some estimate for approval thresholds and clause selection, it seems to me that contractor quotes are sufficient for that purpose.

I encourage you to read the FAR for yourself.

The purpose of the IGCE is to get an "independent" estimate from the government of what something should reasonably cost and not have to rely on a vendor's current quote (especially in situations where there might only be 1 or 2 vendors that can currently provide something). I can then use this as a part of the justification of price reasonableness during the award.

I can't use the IGE/IGCE help justify price reasonableness if the IGCE is simply a carbon copy of the vendor's quote (especially if we only end up with a single quote).

I've gone through what I believed were the relevant parts of the FAR - FAR 13, FAR 8, FAR 16, FAR 7, etc. and did not find anything requiring an IGCE for civilian non-construction contracts.

 

My Agency has requirements such as requiring Acquisition Plans for all orders over the $250k SAT and requiring JOFOCs/justifications for both FSS/GSA and open market orders if there is a limit on competition. I am still looking through the agency regulations but haven't found anything addressing an IGE/IGCE yet.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to mention that my Agency also requires orders to go through the SBA-linked Small Business Customer Experience (SBCX) for approval - and they need IGEs as well. Orders over $250k gets reviewed by several different SBCX staff.

I don't want the SBCX to not approve my acquisition because we only copied a vendor quote that doesn't count as the "independent" part of the independent government estimate.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I've gone through what I believed were the relevant parts of the FAR - FAR 13, FAR 8, FAR 16, FAR 7, etc. and did not find anything requiring an IGCE."

Well, then, you have your answer.  Reading is powerful!

Yes, you were wrongly taught (at least for the FAR level).  

Prospective contractor quotes are ideal for estimates for approval levels and clause requirements -- the gold standard!  Your price reasonableness exercise will begin only after you receive prices in response to your solicitation, and you will have many tools to determine price reasonableness at that time -- so you need not be worrying about price reasonableness now.

If you still want to force your program office to do some extra work to make your reviewers happy, read up on should-cost analyses (not IGCEs) and see if that will meet your need.

But regardless of what is written, if your reviewers are simple-minded and wrongly taught, they may still demand an IGCE even without any supporting citation.  Best wishes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@NewbieFed  While it is true that there is not a compulsatory requirement for a "Independent Government Estimate" in the FAR there are many references that provide that creating an estimate of the cost of an acquisition is excercising good business judgement, a general practice.  You might have misinterpreted the teaching ( I was taught) moment during the independent government cost estimate disucssion in a class.   General practice references in the FAR might even dictate a "shall" to some extent. By example "should cost" has been mentioned.  Or another, how would the government  develope a "fair market price" (see FAR part 19) without some element of developing  its own independent estimate?  Or if you are doing price analysis and use of techniques leads you to utilization of an "independent Government price estimate" ( FAR 15.404-1(b)(2)(v)) would suggest that program people or someone should provide one.     

This said the suggestion  to read the FAR as whole is spot on.  Additionally consider an alternative approach with regard to the pushback.   Ask them what they do when they buy something for themselves.  Do they just go with quotes and suggest they dicate determining fair and reasonable price in all cases?   Or do they do some kind of independent estimating to weigh against the quotes they get.   

Bottom line - By my read of the FAR an IGCE is not compulsatory all the time but maybe some of the time.   For you, choose your battles and determine what you need based on the acquisition.   From my view you were taught a wise business practice that should be considered with every procurement whose defense of need for IGCE rests on the procurement at hand and buisness judgement unless otherwise required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NewbieFed, As you engage on this matter, remember that you must discern that there is a difference between IGCE, IGE, estimate, should-cost, and so forth -- some precision is terminology is helpful.  Your OP asked about an IGCE, and that is the question I addressed.  Can you tell the difference?

If you are still looking for the "Independent" element of an IGCE, ask yourself why you are wanting it.  For a example, if market research of automobile dealer quotes tells me a certain vehicle's price estimate is $45,000, why in the world would I insist that your program office develop an "Independent" estimate?  Remember, you cannot find a FAR citation requiring an IGCE for a non-construction procurement.

So, do you want really insist on an IGCE (without a regulatory basis), or do you simply need a reasonable estimate for approval thresholds and clause prescriptions?  If the latter, why aren't contractor quotes adequate?

But as I said earlier, regardless of what is written, if your reviewers are simple-minded and wrongly taught, as you were, they may still demand an IGCE even without any supporting citation. Best wishes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, ji20874 said:

price estimate is $45,000

 

22 hours ago, NewbieFed said:

Does a civilian, nonconstruction orders over the $250k SAT require Independent Govt Cost Estimates?

I hope the OP also understands that under FAR general practices for when, why and how for an estimate, no matter what anyone wants to call it, suggested by the FAR is different when discussing a $45,000 need versus a dollar amount above the SAT.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...