August 13Aug 13 comment_99549 I have read a SAM.gov announcement for a "commercial service." The performance work statement for the service requires the contractor to perform in compliance with several agency procedural regulations, amounting to more than 300 pages.Is that service really commercial? Report
August 13Aug 13 comment_99552 I wasn't able to review the announcement because the link seems to have been cutoff and just points to the sam.gov splash page. EO 14271 requires that each agency's senior procurement executive review and approve each solicitation for a non-commercial product or service, and that "...the applicable contracting officer shall provide the agency's approval authority with a description of the proposed procurement, which shall include the specific reasons a non-commercial product or service is required, including all market research and price analysis in support of the proposed solicitation for such product or service."What do we think the effect of that is going to be? At least my agency has excluded construction and A&E from this approval requirement. Report
August 14Aug 14 comment_99554 On 8/13/2026 at 9:20 AM, Vern Edwards said:I have read a SAM.gov announcement for a "commercial service." The performance work statement for the service requires the contractor to perform in compliance with several agency procedural regulations, amounting to more than 300 pages.Is that service really commercial?I guess I would have to see the solicitation and even the market research. Not going to defend 300 pages but I might defend adding some sideboards. Using a simple example I contract for a lawnmowing company. I do not simply let them loose to do lawn mowing at my place with out some sideboards. Even if my sideboards are not what they normally do but can still give me a market price for them. 21 hours ago, GeoJeff said:At least my agency has excluded constructionI wonder why the agency took the step considering the RFO at the definition of commercial service says this "Services, including construction,"? Report
August 14Aug 14 Author comment_99555 @ All:Let me rewrite my question, and ask the following two, instead:In a procurement of commercial services by, say, a component of the Department of Defense, is it consistent with commercial items policy for the agemcy to require the contractor to comply with in-house military regulations specifying how agency personnel must perform the same work? If the agency does require such, is the acquisition really commercial?Here is the RFO FAR 2.101 definition of commercial service:Commercial service means—(1) Installation services, maintenance services, repair services, training services, and other services if—(i) Such services are procured for support of a commercial product, as defined in this section regardless of whether such services are provided by the same source or at the same time as the commercial product; and(ii) The source of such services provides similar services at the same time to the general public under terms and conditions similar to those offered to the Government;(2) Services, including construction, of a type offered and sold competitively in substantial quantities in the commercial marketplace based on established catalog or market prices for specific tasks performed or specific outcomes to be achieved and under standard commercial terms and conditions. For purposes of these services—(i) Catalog price means a price included in a catalog, price list, schedule, or other form that the manufacturer or vendor regularly maintains, customers can inspect, and states prices at which sales are currently, or were last, made to a significant number of buyers constituting the general public; and(ii) Market prices means current prices that are established in the course of ordinary trade between buyers and sellers free to bargain and that can be substantiated through competition or from sources independent of the offerors; or(3) A service referred to in paragraph (1) or (2) of this definition, even though the service is transferred between or among separate divisions, subsidiaries, or affiliates of a contractor. Report
August 15Aug 15 comment_99556 /2. Not in my view. Intent is to acquire the services that are found in substantial quantities in the commercial marketplaceIf services required are specific to a military standard suggests they are not services found in substantial quantities in the commercial marketplace.Again the market research would hopefully tell why it is thought the services are commercial when inclusive of specific military regulations. Report
August 16Aug 16 comment_99562 11 hours ago, Vern Edwards said:Thanks, Carl.No problem. My response was quick based on "what I think" on what I encountered over the years. Admittedly old school I have retained GAO decisions over the years that helped make me think. I dug out the file after I responded. Here is a link to a paper copy of GAO decision I found in my file. Not spot on but helps with thinking your questions through in my view.https://www.gao.gov/products/b-411760.2 Report
August 17Aug 17 comment_99563 Here’s the clincher in determining non-commercial -“…outcomes to be achieved and under standard commercial terms and conditions…”(2) Services, including construction, of a type offered and sold competitively in substantial quantities in the commercial marketplace based on established catalog or market prices for specific tasks performed or specific outcomes to be achieved and under standard commercial terms and conditions. For purposes of these services— Report
August 17Aug 17 comment_99564 Vern, I'm not sure I understand your first question. The first thing that comes to my mind is operation of a dining facility (mess hall to us old timers). There are health regulations that must be observed in performing these services. Also, the Army has standard menus and recipes to be followed. Are you asking, for example that following health and safety regulations, menus and recipes would make the services non-commercial? Report
August 17Aug 17 comment_99565 @Retreadfed Not answering for Vern but here are a couple examples of performance restrictions. I’m aware of this from a lengthy discussion years ago about why a long specification was needed for chocolate chip cookies. I think the question is do these limitations make for non-commercial services?https://www.med.navy.mil/Portals/62/Documents/NMFSC/NMOTC/SWMI/OPMED/TSFC_IDC_Symposium_May2013.pptx?ver=nOsuhF50OF0LwxC3lCOcIQ%3D%3D Report
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