Looking for some assistance and advice.

i am a COR working for the DoD - Army. i am currently advising a fellow COR on a contract in which laptops are issued to the contractor. The laptops are hand receipted to a GS 14/15 and then were given to the contractors to use. The laptops are used for official business and are with the contractors at all times. These laptops weren't issued via a dd-1149 nor are any inventories being done. i don't believe the contractor even knows how many they have. the following clauses are within the contract.

52.245-1

52.245-9

52.245.2

 

252.245-7001

252.245-7002

252.245-7003

252.245-7004

i know that my fellow COR will have to issue a dd-1149 but do these laptops need to go into a APSR?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Dave T,

 

ASPR threshold is $5,000 unit price.  Unless these are very expensive laptops, the answer is no.

This is an area where I think we shoot ourselves in the foot, so to speak.  

We should provide Government property to the contractor -- then, the contractor is responsible for tracking it.  When the Government foolishly (my opinion) hand receipts property directly to a contractor employee, are we subverting/avoiding all of the Government property clauses in the contract?  

We should provide Government property to the contractor, not to the contractor employee (my opinion).

11 minutes ago, formerfed said:

ASPR threshold is $5,000 unit price.  Unless these are very expensive laptops, the answer is no.

at a minimum an dd-1149 should be issued 

15 minutes ago, ji20874 said:

This is an area where I think we shoot ourselves in the foot, so to speak.  

We should provide Government property to the contractor -- then, the contractor is responsible for tracking it.  When the Government foolishly (my opinion) hand receipts property directly to a contractor employee, are we subverting/avoiding all of the Government property clauses in the contract?  

We should provide Government property to the contractor, not to the contractor employee (my opinion).

i agree with you and thats what i think happened in this situation, i believe that the supervisor had "hand receipted" the laptops to the contractor employees. at a  minmimum a dd-1149 should have been used to issue the laptops to the contractor. as another comment indicated depending on the value of the laptops would determine if they need to be entered into an APSR...

In this scenario, would the contractor be required to have an approved Property Management System IAW 252.245-7003?

If so, should that have been an evaluation factor (or maybe a responsibility factor) in the original competition for award?

If the contractor is required to develop an adequate System in order to properly track government-issued laptops, and assuming there is no other contract that requires an adequate tracking system, would the CO be willing to pay for that effort as a direct contract cost?

Bottom-line is that telling the contractor to track the laptops carries with that direction the possibility that there will be an increased cost of performance. I would hope the IGCE included that "hidden" cost in its estimate.

1 hour ago, formerfed said:

ASPR threshold is $5,000 unit price.

ASPR?

52 minutes ago, Vern Edwards said:

ASPR?

APSR.  A slip going back to my intern days and early DoD experience.  🙄

1 hour ago, Vern Edwards said:

ASPR?

typo - good laugh

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

typo - good laugh

In related news, I have a copy of the ASPR Manual for Contract Pricing, dated 1975, that's available if somebody wants it. I've had it for years, and never once used it. Message me if interested.

16 hours ago, here_2_help said:

In related news, I have a copy of the ASPR Manual for Contract Pricing, dated 1975, that's available if somebody wants it. I've had it for years, and never once used it. Message me if interested.

It's available for download in pdf at:

[Dead link removed.]

Edited July 2, 20223 yr by Vern Edwards
Delete dead link.

1 hour ago, Vern Edwards said:

It's available for download in pdf at:

https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5Qac61IuUMG4P1X5FIC799cOZWRKiOfKRMdiZmhDYC3AaqkomXVxHlUG9t5tnckNEXNI3SmlGmFALzJUHgehgElq7EvCv1Ii_Ym7pP80jVuKohkJ-ItoEw-usxTLk1UDfMtZMxMmDAWKqF9mS_O9V5V6CgSfeWwvs1NWG63se-TmKLH1P4pII5lV9-q2Hfxeik557f0M6iWznvtxZOXUYF6aeijHfiOcY4_M7Ji35znnUhxMfX4_8vXB5Cv7nOub58gdYmcvjgpm4y1zjJbSQ3t10EqT40-8E6EkbmPVRh9gRexb42n8

Sure, but my copy is suitable for putting on a bookshelf in a CMO

4 hours ago, here_2_help said:

In related news, I have a copy of the ASPR Manual for Contract Pricing, dated 1975, that's available if somebody wants it. I've had it for years, and never once used it. Message me if interested.

Is your copy a yellow paperback book? Mine is.

I wasn’t able to open the link (on my iPhone):

“403. That’s an error.

Your client does not have permission to get URL /books/content?req=AKW5Qac61IuUMG4P1X5FIC799cOZWRKiOfKRMdiZmhDYC3AaqkomXVxHlUG9t5tnckNEXNI3SmlGmFALzJUHgehgElq7EvCv1Ii_Ym7pP80jVuKohkJ-ItoEw-usxTLk1UDfMtZMxMmDAWKqF9mS_O9V5V6CgSfeWwvs1NWG63se-TmKLH1P4pII5lV9-q2Hfxeik557f0M6iWznvtxZOXUYF6aeijHfiOcY4_M7Ji35znnUhxMfX4_8vXB5Cv7nOub58gdYmcvjgpm4y1zjJbSQ3t10EqT40-8E6EkbmPVRh9gRexb42n8 from this server.  That’s all we know.”

3 hours ago, joel hoffman said:

Is your copy a yellow paperback book? Mine is.

Yep

Mine was just like this one  "red" but this is 1969 and 1986.  

ASPM #1. 1969

ASPM 1986

I think I read the 1986 version the most, especially Chapter 8.  I always liked this one under "Gamesmanship."

"The Here It Is Friday Afternoon and You've Got to Catch the Plane Squeeze"

OK, back to the topic.

13 hours ago, joel hoffman said:

I wasn’t able to open the link (on my iPhone):

Yeah. Something goes wrong when I try to copy the link.

Go to Google Books and search for Armed Services Procurement Regulation Manual for Contract Pricing 1975 and scroll until you reach a downloadable version. The 1969 and 1986 versions are also available at Google Books.

They are still good reference works.

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

laptops are issued to the contractor.

 

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

given to the contractors to use.

 

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

The laptops are used for official business

 

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

i don't believe the contractor even knows how many they have

 

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

know that my fellow COR will have to issue a dd-1149 but do these laptops need to go into a APSR?

Alternative #1 - Oh what the heck tell your other COR not to worry, after all the leaders of Forum think it is a trivial matter and are hung up on ASPR and where to find it.  No big deal that some contractor employees are running around with official government laptops which allow access to who knows what, just move along. Especially when the leaders give off the cuff responses without reference.

Alternative #2 - Don't get hung up on typos everyone including me , make them in Forum.  Do some due diligence as the property you are talking about is very important to the security of the United States and maybe talk to somebody at MICC.   Or do some reading, it is advocated in Forum, and figure out that there is guidance and that guidance is found here -  https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/500064p.pdf.   And most importantly the guidance provides this ( I added the emphasis) - 

a. Accountable property records will be established in an APSR for:

(5) Property of any value provided to a contractor as government furnished property (GFP).

4 hours ago, C Culham said:

Oh what the heck tell your other COR not to worry, after all the leaders of Forum think it is a trivial matter and are hung up on ASPR and where to find it. 

@C Culham What leaders of the Forum think that?

Good job finding the DOD instruction. The OP could have, and should have, found it for himself.

I wonder if the laptops would be considered "incidental to the place of performance" as described at FAR 45.000(b). 

Government property that is incidental to the place of performance, when the contract requires contractor personnel to be located on a Government site or installation, and when the property used by the contractor within the location remains accountable to the Government. Items considered to be incidental to the place of performance include, for example, office space, desks, chairs, telephones, computers, and fax machines.

12 hours ago, Don Mansfield said:

I wonder

Could be....below is from the reference I already provided.   I had this thought from the get go.   What does the CO say about the situation?  Per the OP we have one COR talking to another.   It would seem the CO is the one that has the say.

c. Administrative property typically does not meet the definition of GFP; however, the terms and conditions of the contract may dictate otherwise. Before establishing formal GFP records for administrative property when no previous accountable property record has been established, the responsible APO must determine, in coordination with the contracting officer or legal counsel, if the property can be designated as “incidental to place of performance” as defined in Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) Part 45.000(b)(5). When administrative property can be so designated, a formal GFP record is not required. If the property does not meet “incidental to place of performance” criteria, the responsible APO must establish a formal GFP record.

I wouldn't think laptops would be "incidental to a place of performance," since they exist to allow the user to operate from almost anywhere. This would especially seem to be the case if the contractor employees are allowed to travel with the laptops and to take them home.

It is unclear to me whether "administrative property" is a subcategory of property "incidental to the place of performance" or a distinct category. But whether the contractor must maintain a property record for laptops may depend on whether the government has established a "previous accountable property record." If it has, then it seems to me that the CO should require the contractor to maintain a property record.

Then again, laptops are generally cheap (unless it's a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro).

But there is this:

23 hours ago, C Culham said:

Do some due diligence as the property you are talking about is very important to the security of the United States and maybe talk to somebody at MICC. 

Emphasis added.

3 hours ago, Vern Edwards said:

I wouldn't think laptops would be "incidental to a place of performance," since they exist to allow the user to operate from almost anywhere. This would especially seem to be the case if the contractor employees are allowed to travel with the laptops and to take them home.

It is unclear to me whether "administrative property" is a subcategory of property "incidental to the place of performance" or a distinct category. But whether the contractor must maintain a property record for laptops may depend on whether the government has established a "previous accountable property record." If it has, then it seems to me that the CO should require the contractor to maintain a property record.

Then again, laptops are generally cheap (unless it's a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro).

But there is this:

Emphasis added.

Vern, I agree with you. I wasn’t able to determine when the “incidental to the place of performance” language was written. Desktop computers tended to be unwieldy, thus less likely to be taken away from the workplace. Laptops are highly mobile - and as stated- “…very important to the security of the United States…”

Security, hacking, theft, etc. concerns and defenses are much more emphasized now vs. 20 or more years ago. Laptops are often replacing desktops now.

American Airlines crushed my my  $4500 Government Dell (or Gateway?) laptop computer and six or seven other bags/cases in the jetway elevator door frame about  10-13 years ago. They tried to evade responsibility for damage to computers when gate checked but their negligence was so gross that I convinced them to pay for the computer.

That’s not cheap, like one many of us can buy now, although prices have come down.

Just saying that government laptops don’t seem to be “incidental to the place of performance” AND can be expensive. The contract should provide for contractor accountability.

One would think that care, security and accountability for government issued laptops intended for contractor use would be at least mentioned in a contract these days. Likely identified as “accountable government furnished property”. 

Here’s another perspective from DAU.  I was looking for something else and came across this by accident

https://www.dau.edu/aap/pages/ArticleContent.aspx?itemid=18602

21 hours ago, formerfed said:

Here’s another perspective from DAU.  I was looking for something else and came across this by accident

https://www.dau.edu/aap/pages/ArticleContent.aspx?itemid=18602

Thanks, formerfed.

I am surprised that the AAP questioner’s organization doesn’t hold individuals (govt employees?)  accountable for laptop computers. In my organization, the loss or damage to a government employee’s computer would probably have resulted in a “Report of Survey”. If the government employee was found to be grossly negligent, they might be held personally liable for a loss.

The government doesn’t need to make contractor employees accountable or liable.  They should make the contractor accountable for issued laptop computers.