Mayonayze 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 If I want to propose a 7% fixed fee for a CPFF contract where travel and material are 'non-fee bearing' and the ratio of fee bearing and non-fee bearing costs is weighted such that I would need to put 18% fee on the fee bearing cost items to achieve an overall program fee of 7%, is that acceptable given that the FAR limits fee on non R&D CPFF contracts to 10%? Asked another way, does the 10% limit apply only to fee bearing costs, or at the total cost line? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jacques 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 It applies to the CLIN, which is where you list the estimated cost, fixed fee, and total. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ji20874 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 The thought that materials are 'non-fee bearing' is a bastardization of a T&M principle, and is not a CPFF principle. FAR 15.404-4(c)(4)(i)(C) says "the fee shall not exceed 10 percent of the contract’s estimated cost." Travel and material are included within the contract's estimated cost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
here_2_help 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Mayonayze said: Asked another way, does the 10% limit apply only to fee bearing costs, or at the total cost line? As ji20874 noted, the 10% limit applies to the total cost line. If your estimated costs are weighted the way your post implies, with burdened travel and material outweighing burdened labor by more than 2:1, then something isn't smelling right to me. Why is your burdened labor number so low in comparison to total estimated cost? Is there perhaps a subcontractor or two in the mix? If so, are you putting proposed fee on your subcontractors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mayonayze 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 thanks, all! H2H, the numbers were pre-coffee hypotheticals. I forgot to put my attention to detail on before posting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mayonayze 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, ji20874 said: The thought that materials are 'non-fee bearing' is a bastardization of a T&M principle, and is not a CPFF principle. FAR 15.404-4(c)(4)(i)(C) says "the fee shall not exceed 10 percent of the contract’s estimated cost." Travel and material are included within the contract's estimated cost. Thanks for this, too. Our Navy folk are constantly complaining the SEAPORT-E CPFF contracts stipulate no fee on materials. Have not laid eyes on one of their TO's but will keep an eye out the next time I get a chance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Mansfield 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Mayonayze said: If I want to propose a 7% fixed fee for a CPFF contract where travel and material are 'non-fee bearing' and the ratio of fee bearing and non-fee bearing costs is weighted such that I would need to put 18% fee on the fee bearing cost items to achieve an overall program fee of 7%, is that acceptable given that the FAR limits fee on non R&D CPFF contracts to 10%? Asked another way, does the 10% limit apply only to fee bearing costs, or at the total cost line? Are the nonfee bearing costs on a separate line item than the fee-bearing costs? The SEAPORT-E orders that I have seen contain both CPFF line items and Cost (no fee) line items. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mayonayze 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Don Mansfield said: Are the nonfee bearing costs on a separate line item than the fee-bearing costs? The SEAPORT-E orders that I have seen contain both CPFF line items and Cost (no fee) line items. This is probably what they mean, then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Mansfield 0 Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Then I agree with Jacques. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neil Roberts 0 Posted April 11, 2020 Report Share Posted April 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Mayonayze said: ...I would need to put 18% fee on the fee bearing cost items to achieve an overall program fee of 7%,... If this were DoD or DOE and maybe some other agencies, I believe you should be guided by using weighted guidelines instructions/structure for those elements. If I were negotiated with you, I would ask for some rationale as to why the bottom line fee should be 7%. As posted I could conclude that there is an arbitrary bottom line effective fee being arbitrarily allocated to elements of estimated cost. Just saying... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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