ji20874 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 50 minutes ago, joel hoffman said: My suggestion was to try to negotiate with the prime to pay or get the prime to negotiate with the government to authorize payment for off-site materials, which are specifically bought for this work... That’s the same advice as I shared. Did you share it already in this thread? I have to suppose that these negotiations will go better if Kathleen does not ask the contracting officer to prove that the prime contractor has not fraudulently invoiced for the subcontractor materials. 16 minutes ago, joel hoffman said: ...the sub may have some recourse available for any cost impacts due to the delayed schedule... Recourse against the Government, or the prime contractor? Kathleen has not made any hint that the Government is responsible for the contract delays, so I don’t make any such assumption. This thread is about subcontractor entitlement to payment for materials offsite still in the subcontractor’s possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel hoffman Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 7 hours ago, ji20874 said: That’s the same advice as I shared. Did you share it already in this thread? I have to suppose that these negotiations will go better if Kathleen does not ask the contracting officer to prove that the prime contractor has not fraudulently invoiced for the subcontractor materials. Yes I also shared that. You are making a supposition regarding asking the KO to prove fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel hoffman Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 8 hours ago, ji20874 said: 8 hours ago, joel hoffman said: ...the sub may have some recourse available for any cost impacts due to the delayed schedule... Recourse against the Government, or the prime contractor? Kathleen has not made any hint that the Government is responsible for the contract delays, so I don’t make any such assumption. This thread is about subcontractor entitlement to payment for materials offsite still in the subcontractor’s possession. We answered the original question. From the information provided, schedule delays are impacting Kathleens ability to measure and fabricate the product that she has to install. We don’t know who is responsible, so that would be up to her to pursue. I have merely suggested another course of action to help her firm. No fraudulent or otherwise improper conduct is hinted, assumed, claimed or suggested on my part. I’m not sure why that has to be so offensive to you. Let’s let her decide what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Hoosier Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 I believe at this time, I will need to get the material to the project fabricated before I can pursue payment of the material. All of your comments have been extremely helpful! Thank you. My next plan of action is to take the project schedule and overlay the 3 week look ahead schedule to identify the delays. Since the GC at this time has not provided a new approved schedule from the Gov. I can only assume the delays are not being pursued by the GC and the outcome will be the push on all the sub contractors. Ideally, I will be able to verify benchmarks with the GC and have them approve our ability to move forward. Thank you all for your help. I truly appreciate this greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Hoosier Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 All of you are right, unfortunately. I cannot find anywhere within the contractual information available that the Gov must pay for these stored materials. My only logical recourse is to get the material to the site as soon as possible and request prompt pay. Thank you for being a sounding board and I do appreciate the time and effort you extended to me. Sometimes the hardest lessons to learn are those that cost you money! With this being said, I will start my review of the schedule delays. Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel hoffman Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Kathleen Hoosier said: I believe at this time, I will need to get the material to the project fabricated before I can pursue payment of the material. All of your comments have been extremely helpful! Thank you. Kathy, I agree that you may have to deliver the fabricated materials to the site to be paid anything but I would check with the prime to see if the fabrication could be considered progress. We (USACE) once had a Through Truss Railroad Bridge that was fabricated in PA and shipped in sections to Alabama by barges for installation over the Tombigbee River. We paid for the fabrication and the materials as progress - but we DID have authorization for Off-site stored materials in that contract. I would check anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Hoosier Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 The contract is open ended. It says they CAN pay for it, but they would have to approved it first. I have requested the GC to allow us to fabricate from the approved shop drawings. I have also requested to put a 40' roll off on site to bring out the the fasteners, steel clips, steel inserts, vinyl, backer rod, steel shims, etc. This will at least alleviate some of my cost, if I have the materials on site. Now, I just need to figure out why we haven't been paid for November for our Submittals and Engineering and why they are asking me to change my billing to December. Ugh. Thank you again. Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel hoffman Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 38 minutes ago, Kathleen Hoosier said: Now, I just need to figure out why we haven't been paid for November for our Submittals and Engineering and why they are asking me to change my billing to December. Ugh. Thank you again. Kathy Submittals normally aren’t considered work accomplished for “progress”... Unless this is a design-build contract and by “Engineering”, you mean it’s part of the “design”, I’d venture that it isn’t being considered “work accomplished”. In my experience, “extensions of design”, like layout and sizing of the performance based building heat detectors, smoke detection and fire sprinkler systems, aren’t considered “work accomplished” but are indirect, spread across the overall installation costs. But - I suggest talking to your prime about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen Hoosier Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Our scope is considered deferred approval with Design assist due to the blast resistance. They have approved portion of the submittals, but that was at 50%, not that we have approval of the drawings, samples, offsite testing at a testing lab, and mock up. They should be paying for these items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ji20874 Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Kathleen Hoosier said: They should be paying for these items. Did you negotiate these payment terms into your subcontract? If so, you might have to remind the prime contractor of the agreement memorialized in your subcontract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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