pmh Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 We are a subcontractor, the prime is including a travel clause in the sub. In the clause the prime wants us to comply with the Federal Travel Regulations. We are a non-profit, therefore we comply with A-122, and this circular states we follow our own travel policy, not FTR. A-122 also says that if you are a subcontractor, you still comply with the circular. The prime is saying it doesn't matter and since they have to comply with FTR (they are a large biz), then we have to. Is there any case law that states that subs follow there own cost principles and not the primes? I think the prime is wrong, but it's hard to argue when they don't care what A-122 says. Is there any other place that would back up my arguement? Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napolik Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 We are a subcontractor, the prime is including a travel clause in the sub. In the clause the prime wants us to comply with the Federal Travel Regulations. We are a non-profit, therefore we comply with A-122, and this circular states we follow our own travel policy, not FTR. A-122 also says that if you are a subcontractor, you still comply with the circular. The prime is saying it doesn't matter and since they have to comply with FTR (they are a large biz), then we have to. Is there any case law that states that subs follow there own cost principles and not the primes? I think the prime is wrong, but it's hard to argue when they don't care what A-122 says. Is there any other place that would back up my arguement? Thanks all. Generally, the prime is flowing down the requirement of its contract with the Gov't. What does the prime contract say about travel? What type of contract is the prime contract- cost reimbursable? What does the proposed subcontract travel clause say about travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmh Posted March 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Generally, the prime is flowing down the requirement of its contract with the Gov't. What does the prime contract say about travel?What type of contract is the prime contract- cost reimbursable? What does the proposed subcontract travel clause say about travel? Their prime says that they have to comply with the FTR (they're a large biz), because of privity of contract, that shouldn't matter to us. The subcontract clause they are flowing down is saying the same thing, that we must comply with the FTR, but I think they should tailor the travel clause to suit the appropriate type of subcontractor. It's a T&M subcontract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here_2_help Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Their prime says that they have to comply with the FTR (they're a large biz), because of privity of contract, that shouldn't matter to us. The subcontract clause they are flowing down is saying the same thing, that we must comply with the FTR, but I think they should tailor the travel clause to suit the appropriate type of subcontractor. It's a T&M subcontract. pmh, This question seems to merit either a lengthy reply going into legal stuff, or a pithy one. I choose pithy. If you want a deeper reply, you'll either have to wait for somebody else or hire an attorney. My reply: You are correct. But so what? It's not a matter of FAR vs. A-122 or privity of contract or tailoring terms. It's a matter of negotiation. Either accept the terms or push back and seek different ones. How hard are you willing to push back? If you accept the terms, how much more work will it be for you? Seek increased profit to cover the delta. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmh Posted March 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 pmh,This question seems to merit either a lengthy reply going into legal stuff, or a pithy one. I choose pithy. If you want a deeper reply, you'll either have to wait for somebody else or hire an attorney. My reply: You are correct. But so what? It's not a matter of FAR vs. A-122 or privity of contract or tailoring terms. It's a matter of negotiation. Either accept the terms or push back and seek different ones. How hard are you willing to push back? If you accept the terms, how much more work will it be for you? Seek increased profit to cover the delta. Hope this helps. Here_2_help, thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I recently inherited this subcontract, wasn't involved in the negotiation, and it was already signed by our institution. I was seeking a modification to tailor the travel clause. I realize the "you signed it, live with it" is probably what we will have to do, but I was hoping for some added ammo for my agrument. It's happened here before, and I've always gotten the primes to change it, this is the first time anyone has refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here_2_help Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 I realize the "you signed it, live with it" is probably what we will have to do ... Yep. Hopefully the person or persons who executed the subcontract have "moved on" ... to another company. H2H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAR Fetched Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 What is the cost impact of using the FTR vs using your own policy? What costs specifically are you incurring that aren?t reimbursable under the FTR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmh Posted April 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 The cost impact is low. It's not that they don't reimburse certain items, it's that our limits are slightly higher than the FTR's, and we don't use per diems. The biggest impact is that all of our contracts follow our travel policy per the Cost Principles, and now we have to comply with FTR on this one, and it just creates an extra "step" (different procedures) that our finance people have to account for. We want consistency in contracting and this throws a wrench in there (granted its a small one). Plus, I don't like being told I'm wrong, when I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAR Fetched Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Sounds like a classic case of a company allowing its own policy to get in the way of doing business. It would also be good for you company to become familiar with the FTR if you plan to continue doing business with the Federal Government (even as a Subcontractor). When doing business as a subcontractor, I tend to pick my battles ? this one doesn?t seem worth fighting. Just use the FTR. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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