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FFP Payment after POP


CM1982

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If you have an FFP contract for say...engineering services and your POP is 12 months, can you invoice after the POP is over?

Basically, say you invoiced for all of the actual work and for some reason there is money left over...it's not your right to invoice for it just because it's FFP, or is it? Is it ok as long as the amount was incurred or performed in the POP?

Thanks.

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Guest Vern Edwards
If you have an FFP contract for say...engineering services and your POP is 12 months, can you invoice after the POP is over?

Basically, say you invoiced for all of the actual work and for some reason there is money left over...it's not your right to invoice for it just because it's FFP, or is it? Is it ok as long as the amount was incurred or performed in the POP?

Thanks.

Your question, as asked, is impossible to answer intelligently. In order to answer intelligently someone would need a lot more information. Maybe some other wifconer will have the patience to pursue this with you.

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If you have an FFP contract for say...engineering services and your POP is 12 months, can you invoice after the POP is over?

Basically, say you invoiced for all of the actual work and for some reason there is money left over...it's not your right to invoice for it just because it's FFP, or is it? Is it ok as long as the amount was incurred or performed in the POP?

Thanks.

While Vern is correct - entries to this forum should be intelligently written with proper grammar, spelling, terminology, syntax and in sufficient detail - I will take a chance and respond to your question as I read it.

The general answer to your question is that a firm fixed price contract is not a cost-reimbursement vehicle - the contractor does not have to justify his/her costs to be paid. The contractor is entitled to the full amount of the contract, whether they promptly invoice or whether they invoice months later. The final invoice on any contract is usually presented after the POP is complete.

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If you have an FFP contract for say...engineering services and your POP is 12 months, can you invoice after the POP is over?

Basically, say you invoiced for all of the actual work and for some reason there is money left over...it's not your right to invoice for it just because it's FFP, or is it? Is it ok as long as the amount was incurred or performed in the POP?

Thanks.

I underlined the part that doesn't make sense. Please clarify.

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Guest Vern Edwards
Not very nice - FAR Fetched.

:lol: Under a firm-fixed-price contract, the contractor is entitled to payment of amounts stipulated in the contract for supplies delivered and accepted or services rendered and accepted in accordance with the terms of the contract.

1. Diid the contractor deliver supplies or render services in accordance with the terms of the contract?

2. Was the price of those supplies or services stipulated in the contract?

3. Did the government accept the supplies or services?

4. Has the contractor been paid for all deliveries or performances?

If the answer to the first three questions is yes and the answer to the last is no, then the contractor can invoice for anything still owed to it, even if the period of performance has expired. The contractor is not entitled to anything left over after both parties have fulfilled all of their obligations.

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Not very nice - FAR Fetched.

You?re right, my apologies. I feel like I?m being led on a wild goose chase, but I?ll bite:

If it?s FFP for 12 month, what was the agreement to bill? e.g. 12 1-month payments? Bench marking at 50%, 75% and 100% completed?

Please define ?actual work?. Were they required to turn in timesheets or something? Are the engineering services for a project or is it more staff augmentation?

I could ask more but that at least will paint a picture of what?s going on.

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Not very nice - FAR Fetched.

Thanks Leo. Basically, I'm dealing with a sub on an old issue and can't find anything in the file marked final invoice. Today I just received another invoice 18 months after the POP ended. They charged all of the labor hours (according to previous invoices) and it's not travel being that it's so long after the POP, so I wasn't sure if there was any recourse or not.

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Guest Vern Edwards
Thanks Leo. Basically, I'm dealing with a sub on an old issue and can't find anything in the file marked final invoice. Today I just received another invoice 18 months after the POP ended. They charged all of the labor hours and it's not travel being that it's so long after the POP, so I wasn't sure if there was any recourse or not.

Lurking around for a while, I noticed the overly pretentious posts on these boards and went against my better judgement and decided to ask a question.

I admit, my post was more a stream of consciousness as I was typing and fielding a question from someone in my office at the same time but come on. Really? As I read through the self righteous lashings all I could do is roll my eyes.

Certain people must really love to hear themselves type.

Since this is a private contract and not a government contract, all bets are off. The answer is a matter of contract terms and state law, not Federal contract regulations and case law. I don't know the answer.

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Since this is a private contract and not a government contract, all bets are off. The answer is a matter of contract terms and state law, not Federal contract regulations and case law. I don't know the answer.

Correct, however we flow down the type of contract to reflect the prime (Gov) contract. I have virtually no experience with FFP as I come from a CR world so I was wondering how it would be treated from a Gov FFP standpoint. Basically change the sub to the prime and the prime to the Gov for hypothetical purposes.

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Correct, however we flow down the type of contract to reflect the prime (Gov) contract. I have virtually no experience with FFP as I come from a CR world so I was wondering how it would be treated from a Gov FFP standpoint. Basically change the sub to the prime and the prime to the Gov for hypothetical purposes.

It's really not that simple and no they're not the same. Is your Prime contract FFP? Does it match the subs POP? Is the Prime contract with the Gov closed out? What are the terms for submitting a Final Invoice in your subcontract?

The answers really should be in your Subcontract agreement.

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Guest Vern Edwards
Correct, however we flow down the type of contract to reflect the prime (Gov) contract. I have virtually no experience with FFP as I come from a CR world so I was wondering how it would be treated from a Gov FFP standpoint. Basically change the sub to the prime and the prime to the Gov for hypothetical purposes.

Based on the information that you have provided, I'll stick with my post of 9:04 am. I think it is generally valid, although circumstances in your specific case are likely to affect the answer. For instance, it would be unusual for a contractor to bill for labor hours under an FFP contract, unless the deliverables are unit-priced hours.

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