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wmcastleberry

Project Manager - Count as Labor / Personnel?

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I have used this site a few times and have felt it to be extremely helpful.  Hoping to get a little information from someone out there. 

I am involved with a project in which the solicitation includes VAAR 852.219.10, which reads.. "services (except construction), at least 50 percent of the cost of personnel for contract performance will be spent for employees of the concern or employees of other eligible service-disabled veteran-owned small business concerns;"

 

The proposal that was sent to the government included Project Management and quick example of hours calculated.  In response, the government stated the only positions that they consider personnel level are ones such as operational, boots on the ground, etc... not Project Managers.

 

But, our view is it takes a large amount of PM to perform this contract.  How is the government able to exclude PM from the term, "Cost of personnel for contract performance?"  Is that correct?  Is there a way around this? 

In other words, how can the government determine what is considered "labor" for subcontracts?

I would greatly appreciate any ideas.  Thanks.

-William

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1 hour ago, wmcastleberry said:

I have used this site a few times and have felt it to be extremely helpful.  Hoping to get a little information from someone out there. 

I am involved with a project in which the solicitation includes VAAR 852.219.10, which reads.. "services (except construction), at least 50 percent of the cost of personnel for contract performance will be spent for employees of the concern or employees of other eligible service-disabled veteran-owned small business concerns;"

 

The proposal that was sent to the government included Project Management and quick example of hours calculated.  In response, the government stated the only positions that they consider personnel level are ones such as operational, boots on the ground, etc... not Project Managers.

 

But, our view is it takes a large amount of PM to perform this contract.  How is the government able to exclude PM from the term, "Cost of personnel for contract performance?"  Is that correct?  Is there a way around this? 

In other words, how can the government determine what is considered "labor" for subcontracts?

I would greatly appreciate any ideas.  Thanks.

-William

Is the project manager effort charged as a direct cost to the contract and not included in your overhead or G&A pool(s)?

Please clarify what you mean by this question?

Quote

In other words, how can the government determine what is considered "labor" for subcontracts?

Are you referring to your project manager for subs?  Where is the PM located?

If you are referring to determining subcontractor labor,  SBA used to say that - if the subcontractor's proposal doesn't break out labor or construction materials, then consider the entire subcontract as subcontracted labor.  Now that primes can count similarly situated subs for purposes of meeting the self performance requirement, I doubt if that is SBA's current position. But I'm not going to research the SBA's CFR's,  because I'm not clearly understanding your question.

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William,

Are you in a situation where you meet the limitation on subcontracting only if you include project management, and don't meet it if you don't? I wonder if you're classifying a whole bunch of back-office or overhead workers as project management? 

If you're in a solicitation situation, you don't have much time -- you need to resolve this with your contracting officer before he or she eliminates you from the competition. If you're really talking about people who will contribute to contract performance, perhaps you might reply to the contracting officer with something such as,

  • We consider the cost for the project manager [or the cost for Project Management staff] as part of the cost of personnel for contract performance. We are not aware of any policy or regulation that defines cost of personnel for contract performance as excluding the project manager [or the Project Management staff]. Can you share the basis for your assertion that the cost of the project manager [or the Project Management staff] cannot be included in the cost for personnel for contract performance?

But be careful -- if this is a competitive acquisition, you need to know whether the Government's outreach to you is a matter of clarifications, communications, or discussions, as those terms are defined in FAR 15.306.

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Thank you ji20874 and Joe. I am assisting someone with this problem and it is the first time I have come across something like this.  I really appreciate the advice.  We may talk with the CO first and see how that goes.  I will keep all of you updated.  Thanks again.

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