Guest Vern Edwards Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Carl: Quote In the performance of this contract the following are prohibited from taking place on the government work site and/or government owned property: Consumption of alcoholic liquor; Games of chance in any form, and/or; Socialize or form a friendship with any personnel of the contracting Agency. Does liquor include beer, wine, and hard cider? Generally, liquor is a distilled spirit. How do you define "game of chance"? Is poker a game of chance? http://realmoney.durrrrchallenge.com/skill-luck-paradox/ http://www.gamblingsites.com/poker/introduction/chance-or-skill/ http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/9379-dutch-court-rules-poker-a-skill-game http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1457980/posts Are games of chance prohibited if played just for fun with no money at stake? Socialization can't take place if people bump into each other on a weekend away from the worksite at, say, a national park in a different state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here_2_help Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Vern, I'll stand by my entry (which is limited to one attempt by the rules of the game). I don't necessarily think the policy is stupid; most companies prohibit consumption of alcohol and gambling (including participation in fantasy sports leagues as well as the March madness pools) while on company premises. I'm fine with a Government agency doing the same thing. The banning of "fraternization" or "socialization" seems silly; or, at least, unenforceable in almost any situation I can envision. If "fraternization" means "sexual intercourse (or variations thereof)" then that's probably a bit more enforceable ... but only a bit, human nature being what it is. However, if "socialization" is the term to be used, then I think it is entirely unenforceable. I'm philosophically opposed to the imposition of unenforceable contract terms, just as I counsel against issuing orders that cannot (or will not) be obeyed. H2H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vern Edwards Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 H2H: I understand. I think that as a practical matter the "fraternizing" "socializing" thing is unenforceable, but I'm participating by the rules of the content, under which it's not my job to criticize the policy, but to try to implement it as clearly as possible. There is sometimes utility in imposing an unenforceable term in order to communicate a desire or preference. While practically unenforceable, it might still accomplish something. I understand about varieties of sexual intercourse. I'm a little unclear about "variations." But let's not go into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaK Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Contractor/subcontractor personnel may not engage in any of the following behaviors at a government work site: Alcohol consumption; Gambling; Non-professional contact or relationships with Government personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
here_2_help Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Vern Edwards said: I understand about varieties of sexual intercourse. I'm a little unclear about "variations." But let's not go into it. Probably a wise decision on a public forum, or on Agency premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apsofacto Posted March 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 In necessary I can private message some Urban Dictionary entries. But not from the work computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vern Edwards Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 2 hours ago, LindaK said: Contractor/subcontractor personnel may not engage in any of the following behaviors at a government work site: Alcohol consumption; Gambling; Non-professional contact or relationships with Government personnel. Contractor: Good to know. I'll pass that on to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaal Valentine Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Vern is the winner! LindaK would have taken home gold, but the use of 'may' indicated contractor discretion. Whynot's offering was solid, and could win a protest if it's proven that statements to contractors are passed on to it's employees or agents. Joel's submission was missing the 'who'. Carl's statement seemingly permits some types of alcohol and gambling. I question the winning change from fraternize to socialize. Overall, this reminded me of work. I was given a solicitation that someone else created and included an ambiguous requirement and evaluation scheme (select the best clarification without knowing the intent of the original statement). ***** "Under no circumstances shall the Contractor consume alcohol, gamble or fraternize with Agency employees while on site." - ORIGINAL STATEMENT ***** "The Contractor shall not consume alcohol, gamble, or fraternize at the Agency." - Whynot ***** "The Contractor shall ensure that its employees and the employees of subcontractors at any tier do not consume alcoholic beverages, gamble, or socialize with Government personnel at the work site." - Vern ***** '"Do not consume alcoholic beverages, gamble, or socialize with Government personnel at the work site."' - Joel ***** "In the performance of this contract the following are prohibited from taking place on the government work site and/or government owned property: Consumption of alcoholic liquor; Games of chance in any form, and/or; Socialize or form a friendship with any personnel of the contracting Agency." - C Culham ***** "Contractor/subcontractor personnel may not engage in any of the following behaviors at a government work site: Alcohol consumption; Gambling; Non-professional contact or relationships with Government personnel." -LindaK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Culham Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Vern – Your questions do not matter as a winner was determined but as a courtesy I will respond….I do not need (or would) define anything my statement does through its plain meaning…. al·co·hol·ic ˌalkəˈhôlik/adjective adjective: alcoholic . containing or relating to alcoholic liquor. al·co·hol ˈalkəˌhôl,ˈalkəˌhäl/ noun noun: alcohol; noun: ethyl alcohol 1. a colorless volatile flammable liquid that is the intoxicating constituent of wine, beer, spirits, and other drinks, and is also used as an industrial solvent and as fuel. gam·ble ˈɡambəl/ verb gerund or present participle: gambling 1. 1. play games of chance for money; bet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_chance frat·er·nize ˈfradərˌnīz/ verb 1. associate or form a friendship with someone, especially when one is not supposed to. so·cial·ize ˈsōSHəˌlīz/ verb 1. 1. mix socially with others. "he didn't mind socializing with his staff" synonyms: fraternize, I will now go wallow in internal shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apsofacto Posted March 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Thanks to everyone who participated. There's no reason I should be exempt from the shame. Just for reference- here was the original abhorrent sentence I drafted: Quote "Under no circumstances shall the Contractor consume alcohol, gamble or fraternize with Agency employees while on site." What I hated about it was those two modifiers at the end: "with Agency employees" and "while on site". You cannot tell if those modifiers affect the first two prohibited items. (e.g. contractor can drink alone on site as long as no Agency employees are around) There is a contract interpretation rule which addresses this problem, but you are already up a creek if you are relying on that. I learned there was even more to hate about that sentence through all the back-and-forth. Here was my attempt at a solution: Quote The Contractor's personnel shall not engage in any of the following activities at the Government Facility: 1. Consumption of illegal drugs or alcohol; 2. Gambling; or 3. Sexual Activity. I cheated a little by simplifying the sexual activity prohibition. I hope it was enjoyable. It was educational to me. If someone runs across a horrible sentence or paragraph in the wild, maybe we can do this again. May be worth trying to submit entries via private message rather than through the public board, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Shumway Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 since i have the contractor develop their own statement of work, it's always funny to me when they write "the contractor shall..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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