Is there a list, similar to Section K or 52.212-3, of the certifications required of a subcontractor for a commercial item?

By anon1 on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 04:15 pm:

In the same vein, does anyone believe that it is a good idea to ask for reps and certs from a subcontractor to the prime when the prime has a Federal contract?

By Anonymous on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:49 pm:

In my opinion the answer to both is no.

By Charlie Dan on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 02:35 pm:

I'm not sure I understand the question. There are certainly cases and situations where a prime contractor needs reps/certs from the subcontractor. I can think of any number of situations related to socio-economic programs -- a prime large business wanting to ensure fulfillment of its commitments to solicit small businesses or its goals for women-owned or HUBZone businesses, an 8a contractor wanting to limit the amount of subcontracts going to large businesses, etc. A prime contractor almost always needs a subcontractor to provide a certification as to the sub's size status.

I can also think of issues related to Truth in Negotiations Act -- a prime contractor must obtain certified cost or pricing data from a subcontractor under certain conditions.

There are other concerns that may come up. A prime contractor may need some representations or certifications requiring the potential subcontractor to reveal actual or potential organizational conflicts of interest.

That's off the top of my head, but I think it makes the point.

By anon 1;49 on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 02:54 pm:

CD is right but the question is specific to a Part 12 buy,unless I assume too much. As far as I know there are no contract clause flowdowns to subs....although I agree the info may be needed by the prime...its the primes functiopn ..not ours to obtain it.

By Original Anon on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

Let me try to clarify the question. The latest Section K in the Defense Acquisition Deskbook has a full list of the reps and certs required of a prime. (It is out of date in at least one respect -- it still has the clean air and water cert, even though 52.223-1 was eliminated by FAC 97-15, Dec 27, 1999. I haven't researched the others.)

52.212-3 then has a list of the reps and certs required of a prime in a commercial item contract.

My question is: is there a similar list of the reps and certs required of a subcontractor in a commercial item subcontract?

By ANON 1;49 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:35 am:

no

By anon32 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 10:32 am:

the anser is no - no reps and certs required of subs. The Government has no privity of contract with subs in such a case.

By anon1 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:03 pm:

Anon32; I believe privity involves different rules and circumstances.

Dan, I must agree with your assessment. I think, if nothing more, it is a good idea for the reasons you stated. In support of this, I reviewed FAR subpart 22.8 and loe, there was a comment regarding a subcontractor and the EEO.
Tks

By Original anon on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 12:38 pm:

To Anon 1:49 - thanks. I needed to know if I was missing something out there.
To Anon32 - your first statement is incorrect, or at least misleading. First, reps and certs certainly are required of subs. For example, the cert at 52.203-11, "Certification and Disclosure Regarding Payments to Influence Certain Federal Transactions", must be inserted in subcontracts. There are others as well.
I suppose we could quibble and say that the government isn't requiring the cert from the sub, the prime is (hence your "no privity" comment), but that misses the point. No experienced prime would issue a subcontract without getting the required certs from its subs.
My question was an attempt to find out if there is a list of the certs that the prime must obtain from subs, because not all reps and certs have a flowdown requirement. To get to the point, I'm trying not to reinvent the wheel if such a list exists.

By 1;49 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:07 pm:

Take a look at 12.504...this may help.

By anon1 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:24 pm:

1;49

good point, but it would appear that these would be more related to certain FAR flowdowns-not Reps and Certs, commercial or otherwise. Looking at FAR 52.212-3 might give some ideas of how to structure an analogous Section K for commercial subcontracts coupled with Charlie Dan's reasoning. I know that my procurement people request them.

By 149 on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:49 pm:

Well the clause mentioned earlier in this thread was 52.203-11. I guess my point is that this clause is not included in a commercial contract (part 12). However if you look at 52.212-04 (r) you will not find the FAR clause but you do find its father at 13 1352 et seq. A reading of such indicates that a sub would file disclosure not with the prime but with the agency head. Now at 12.504 (503 and 502 as well) you find that this requirement is not applicable to a commercial buy. Now there are clauses which do require flowdown to subs...but for commercial buys its a little easier to find them ..simply limit your search to each of the 212 series clauses and cross ref them to 12.502,503,504..then read whatever is left to find them.

By Original anon on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:27 pm:

To 149 - What you have described is exactly what I am trying to avoid: do a search, then cross reference, etc.
From the responses I've seen so far, I guess there is no equivalent to Section K or 212.3 for a commercial subcontract.
Thanks everyone. Unless someone comes up with a list real soon, I have some work to do.